- Like conversations on God, God first must be defined by all parties to the debate. Conversations on mind must also first be defined before the debate can begin. Correct?
Since this is about the mind, one must know the definition.
There is mind that in this 3rd dimension and is all about the five senses and contemplation or thought. But did you know that through meditation one can drop the five senses, causing the self and the world to disappear as if they never ever existed. This leaves one in the 6th dimension as the soul or atman, without a body, thought or the five senses. Here you are just using the 6th sense or knowing through the soul’s own light.
This means that if anything comes before the soul, it is known instantly without thought or contemplation. This is because the soul is a piece of the Absolute and is pure awareness or pure consciousness without any thought needed.
To your question… The mind here, as you know it is brain dependent. The view from the soul is that all is this pure awareness, happening beyond our current knowledge. It is just that our current thinking is clouded by the false view that everything pertains to what is physical and our wonderful intellect. Pure awareness is the mind of both the dependent and independent mind you speak of.
Without this pure awareness no debate is possible, not to mention no awareness of life and what debate is being held here, is a waste of time, because the majority don’t have this unknown information yet.
To the second question… knowing this added information is everyone’s birthright through the tool called meditation. Know this and everyday realism will be found to be not what it seems and “metaphysical realism” will be discovered to be, that we are not separate from the universe or all we see around us, but that we are this creation in that it is all mind or this pure awareness or pure consciousness.
In a very complex universe, where we are Special, complex beings, the answers to the questions “Who am it?” and “Why am I here?” end up being very important.
If you never ask them, or don’t bother getting appropriate answers and living by them, than other humans get to control both who you are and what you become.
For many humans, being that controlled is OK, because getting out from under control is just too much work and the supremely lazy and indolent cannot bother to take the necessary effort to do so; so, they just waste a lifetime and run the risk of going through a worst one next time through!
When your mind is turned off and you don’t understand that you are a Special creature who can do amazing things; no big deal – until next lifetime when the path may be much more trying and painful! The clueless don’t know and don’t care – Yet!
Your mind is in constant communication with the Cosmic Mind, unconsciously determining what the inflow from our senses really means; but when that is never properly taught or learned, we ignorant ones just stumble along, believing the steady stream of falsehoods, even downright lies, taught to us. Staying clueless has terrible Karmic consequences, but those ignorant about that have to pay for it later! Lazy and/or ignorant now can really ‘smart with suffering’ later.
You are both within creation and infused by that flow and can use your amazing abilities to do and become Great things; but most humans choose not to do anything worthwhile.
BTW, commonsense was always intended to be a joke because a significant amount of sensibility is anything but common; and a logical approach allows a remarkably tiny fraction of what we can do; if we were to become the conscious beings we are destined to become.
Shutting down your conscious mind, long enough to hear the quiet, wise, messages from your access to consciousness changes the game in amazing ways. The universe seems to have very few, if any, limits; but many in society really insist on applying limits to what we are taught to be possible!
So, become a conscious/Love-focused human; or survive as a virtual non-event!
- Either way, presenting an argument, you will either be presenting from your own particular facet of the “universal” mind (of duality), or from a “knowing” (beyond mind …and not argumentative, nor common) which is more on the metaphysical level (epi-mental being a more accurate label).
Empiricism is a structure where some are “singing from the same song sheet”, from a similar group interpretation…ie, a common language; a sense common to that particular group.
The early, immature description of physical reality at quantum scale is called QM and one silly interpretation of the unexpected findings of this field of inquiry is called the Copenhagen Interpretation, the only suggestion that the world is mind dependent because it appeared that the act of measuring energetic transactions at quantum scale profoundly affected the transactions. Measuring certainly does affect that which is being measured, at any scale, but at quantum scale that effect is so profound it renders it impossible to measure more than one aspect of a transaction at a time. This does not mean the world is mind dependent; the world is the world whether or not anyone observes it. A more advanced version of QM is called QFT and it doesn’t indulge in this immature, silly narrative of a reality that depends on minds.
Regarding metaphysical realism, it is a classic example of an oxymoron of a phrase. Metaphysics means speculative, not real. There cannot be such a realm as metaphysical realism. Empirical everyday common sense realism depends on the familiar, and the findings / observations of quantum scale energetic transactions defies the common sense realism of classic causality. It’s only because we aren’t used to the description of reality provided by these unusual findings. In a hundred years, or a thousand, we will be so familiar with these novel descriptions, they will no longer be a novelty that challenges our common sense of causality; we will have accepted this new description of what is real.
- We suspect the world is mind-independent, however, we have no way to determine this without using our minds. We expect there to be a singular static reality even though all of the evidence points to relativity. That is not the fault of reality, which can only be what it is. The failure is ours. We overlook such things in order to have discussions that seem meaningful.